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Liar, Liar, Wacom on fire.. - Disgruntled Artists

About Liar, Liar, Wacom on fire..

Previous Entry Liar, Liar, Wacom on fire.. Jan. 21st, 2004 @ 07:11 pm Next Entry
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From:allcuishpa
Date:January 22nd, 2004 04:19 am (UTC)
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I don't care if people lie about their techniques, personally. They obviously have a reason for it, whether it's because they feel inferior for using what some would call "cheats" (and the whole concept of "cheating" at art is a silly one to me), or because they feel possessive of their methods. I know a lot of younger artists will post pictures and say "don't steal my style!" or words to that effect, trying to keep themselves uncopied. Maybe some people never grow out of this mindset. It could also be that sometimes an artist doesn't feel like going over every single little thing they do, or else forget some things they've done. I know it's not uncommon for me to forget completely how i did a picture a week after finishing it. There may be malicious intent, but i think usually without some kind of reason, most people wouldn't lie to others to hurt them intentionally. The majority of people tell lies to protect themselves or others.

I don't think you're necessarily wrong to be upset about people lying, as long as they were lying to you or affecting you in some way. But i can't understand being upset about it. If there are such obvious ways to tell how someone did a painting, who cares if they lie to you? I could only see it mattering if you hadn't heard of the technique they used or something. And while it's nice to hear from artists you admire what methods they use when working, there are HUNDREDS of others out there that actually are giving away their techniques through tutorials and works in progress. It's not exactly like the internet is hurting for instructions on how to work in just about any method - certainly enough for anybody to get started toward developing their own techniques and tricks.

It doesn't seem productive or useful to argue with them about their techniques though. The fact is, unless you were sitting right there watching them paint for every second they were working, you can't know with absolute certainty whether they used a photo for reference, painted over it, created it from memory, or what. Some artists really are so good that they can paint realistically without tracing a photo. The only thing "calling them out" does is cause anger, bad feelings, and resentment, as well as smear the person's image in the eyes of people who view their technique as "cheating", even if they used their own photos. It seems to me the only ones who are "spiteful and lacking integrity" are the people who smear someone's image by "calling them out" publicly.

Now, if they're breaking copyright law, the correct thing to do is politely email them about it, and if no action is taken, to notify the person hosting their images of the violation and send proof. Making a big public fuss out of it is childish and unprofessional.

I don't know what tell-tale signs you're talking about finding in Photoshop to spot a photo paint-over, but if you mean that stuff about how the different parts pixelate differently, you need the original photoshop file or some other uncompressed, lossless file format to see that . A compressed jpg at web resolution will always have some artifacts and funky pixelation in it.
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From:malfoypuppy
Date:January 22nd, 2004 01:25 am (UTC)
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I will answer this at length when I am not so brain dead but let me say that yeah, I have been lied to and hurt when I could not achieve a certain effect because I was intentionally misled.


So yeah, this is a bit personal to me.

And no, I have no intention of saying who misled me or naming people whom I know of that are currently lying to others.

Revealing their techniques is another story.


Keep in mind that I am not just talking about digital art here. I don't care what techniques a person uses. I don't consider it cheating to find a shortcut that saves a few hours and a lot of frustration.


It is, however, lacking in integrity and honour to lie about it to people who come to an artist sincerely wanting to learn..
From:lilhole
Date:January 22nd, 2004 01:40 am (UTC)
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“I don't think you're necessarily wrong to be upset about people lying, as long as they were lying to you or affecting you in some way. But i can't understand being upset about it. If there are such obvious ways to tell how someone did a painting, who cares if they lie to you? I could only see it mattering if you hadn't heard of the technique they used or something.”



I think this is the point she is trying to make. The people being misled(herself once included) did NOT and are not aware of these shortcuts. It’s those people who are not experienced enough with the mediums, that do get hurt by the more experienced people lying about their techniques. It’s one thing for a senior artist to refuse to discuss their techniques, leaving the less experienced artists to find their own way, but it IS wrong to lead the unknowledgeable off in a completely WRONG direction, just to cover up your own use of shortcuts.

If the inexperienced COULD tell the “obvious” shortcuts used then
1. they would not be THAT inexperienced
and
2. They would NOT be getting hurt. That isn’t the case.

You try wasting box after box of expensive color pencils, trying to perfect a smooth airbrushed look--without knowing an airbrush IS required. Wouldn’t it have helped if the more experienced artist you are using as an example hadn’t said “All my works are done entirely in color pencil”?

Speaking hypothetically here btw...and just trying to help sort out exactly WHAT is being complained about LOL.
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From:malfoypuppy
Date:January 22nd, 2004 09:17 am (UTC)
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Actually, you hit pretty close to the mark, LilHole, when you talked about the frustration of going through boxes of coloured pencils in vain. I have gotten better at coloured pencils AFTER I discovered that the brand you use makes a huge difference. I use almost exclusively Prismacolor. The reason being is that they are moist and waxy and you can get effects out of them that you cannot get out of the drier kinds.

True story:

About five years ago, I asked a a certain person whom I am acquainted with how she achieved with coloured pencils that effect that nearly resembles an oil painting and said it did not matter what kind of coloured pencil one uses. She said it was nothing more than layering and that she used those Crayola pencils that you get at Walmart.

So... guess what I did....

After ruining several pictures, tearing the paper in places, with these very hard, dry pencils in the attempt to get that oily effect that she often used, I threw the pencils in the trash and vowed to NEVER touch coloured pencils again. In fact, I didn't even draw anything for 3 months because I felt like such a miserable failure.

Well, a few months later I was talking to someone who was a mutual friend of mine and this artist. He asked why I always did everything in black and grey. I told him how badly I sucked with coloured pencils and he sat me down and gave me a demo with his Prismacolours. It turned out that the effect that the other artist was achieving was done by building up several layers of very waxy Prismacolour pencil and going over them with a clear blending pencil or a clear magic marker. When I saw how simple it was, I danced with joy and then immediately started fuming at that bitch who had lied to me. I told him about what had happened and he said that he had been in art classes with her and knew for a fact that she only used Prismacolors and she had misled other people as well. I lost all respect for her that day. Not because she took a shortcut with a clear blender but because she lied to me and nearly caused me to give up art.

So if I have a personal crusade against liars, maybe now some of you will understand why.

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